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Scritty

06-07-2010, 02:09 PM

I read this in another thread, and it prompted me to write a little critique.

I agree, more stats would make the game 10 times better

It got me thinking about what I had hoped for. I mean the following in a positive way. I have bought the game, and hope that it will not be the last I buy. It represents a fair improvement (especially as far as game speed goes) and has some nice new touches.

So with that in mind;

I'm also quite dissapointed that stats are not much improved.

Cricket is a stats game, when a player retires after a brilliant career in CC, most of his records are gone forever (unless he has a couple of partnership ones or something).

This is not an arcade cricket game - it's basically a text sim with a graphic representation (a la FM or OOTP or CC etc)

Text simmers are often stat heads, and let's face it, along with baseball, cricket is perhaps the biggest stat game in the world.

You see the hard core fans at cricket grounds on a wet Thursday in April, how many of them are filling in socrebooks of their own? A lot I can tell you.

I will buy the game. The actual engine seems much improved, but the gameplay mechanics (i.e the mechanisms by which the player interacts with the game) seem pretty much exactly the same as ever.

What I had really hoped for included the addition of;

1) Fielding stats - Currently every player is an "equal" fielder where handedness,speed, agility and age mean nothing.

2) Keeping stats - Maybe there are, but after playing hundreds of years in various version of the game,I've never noticed any difference between one keeper and the next. Just pick the one who is the best batsman

3) Personaization - This is a huge thing for me, and it's something that just about every text based sports game puts top of the agenda. Making players seem like real people not just a couple of numbers.

More stats (some of them personality based such as "handing pressure" and "loyalty" or whatever.
Some control of appearence or club kit colours (this I believe was actually in ICC2 back in 1999)
Player photos. Either mugshots of the cartoon like ones that are currently in the game or better user input BMP's (another feature that was removed with ICC2006 or thereabouts) note I am NOT on about licenced photos, I'm on about game generated mugshots or better still just placeholders so we can add our own -as we once could (a 60 x 70 BMP image)
Favourite shots for batsmen and developing better deliveries for bowlers. (or losing them as often happens in the real game)

4) Above all a increase in the actual depth of the game while being played. More choices for you as captain. A change in the actual mechanics of gameplay.

Let's be fair, this area has really never been touched - the mechanic of playing the game over by over on the pitch is identical now to 12 years ago.

If fielders had different skills then placing would be more important.
Instructions to bowlers.

Not specific ones - I open the bowling for my club in real life, and if the captain told me exactly what ball to bowl each ball I think he'd get the ball handed back to him pretty quick

However -

"I want just 4 quick overs from you, give it everything" conversely
"I need a long spell, tie up this end while we attack from the other" or
"Lots of slower stuff" or" Keep this guy on strike so we can have a go at the other guy next over" (might bowl a bouncer 6th ball for example). or
"Stay on the fence" or "Walk in" instructions.

For batsmen "rotate the strike" etc.
Changing the aggression settings for batting and bowling can simulate some of the above to an extent (not a very large extent mind) but require micro management.

There are also some really simple looking things that really should have been sorted by now.

For example. Aggression settings for batsmen - when unlocked - only allow you to specify which "end" the batsman should be aggressive or defensive with. It should tie to a specific bowler, not just an end. i.e when the bowler changes it should revert to the default setting, or a setting pre-specified for that particular bowler. Now any new bowler coming on just takes the settings from the previous bowler. If you are playing through a match quite quickly it's a pain to keep setting and resetting aggressions as bowlers change.

All in all though the lack of stats is my one major complaint. I really did expect a lot more in this department.

I said I'd buy this game, and I will. But if there is a next game I will want some pretty big and specific assurances that stats and records will get a major overhaul.

I want my 200 year games to keep a record of the great players that played. Not lose 99% of them the minute they retire.

Decent enough game, and just enough improvement to keep me a customer for this year though.

Shame some of the simple things like user photo's and aggression by bowler not end couldn't be fixed, I don't know how the game is coded, but they really don't appear to be that hard.

ICC2010 is a miniscule 100 megabytes (far less if you discount the sound files) Most people PC's are many many times more powerful than the game requires. Having a decent sized permanent database file (nice if it could be browsed, sorted and printed while not in the game as well) would be great.
In fact I'd go so far as to say that is the issue that will decide whether I buy another ICC game or not.

Scritty

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 03:57 PM

Ive already posted my thoughts Scritty and I am entirely behind you, Ive even stopped playing the demo because its no different than in the last 12 years for me. I can't play the game no matter how good the realism of the results are and the gameplay if the stats are not recorded in Wisden like fashion. Ive been begging them to change the game for years and Im convinced others must be like me. You know people that buy the Playfair cricket book and read it on the toilet, I don't know why so many people are drawn in to the graphics side of things.

OOTP for instance is absolutely awesome for its stats, but I want them to improve more!, But I can quickly see the home run leaderboard top 100 for the last 200 years! etc.

I used to have a stat book where I recorded my own partnerships v teams and highest scores etc. But Im way too old for that now. I just struggle to get my head around the way these great guys are seeing the game develope. Im worried I will have died before they get it right!

I would spend £50 on it to have it like the Wisden maybe more, Ive been praying for a game like it since the spectrum and test cricket!.

Why is it that football manager and others have come on in leaps and bounds but Cricket Captain has not?

Come on guys, Ill have your babies!!!!

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 03:58 PM

Oh and I have not bought the last 2 versions now!!!, Another year of waiting to look forward to!

Themer

06-07-2010, 04:00 PM

"Why is it that football manager and others have come on in leaps and bounds but Cricket Captain has not?"

Because one is a massive worldwide company that has near infinte resources and the other is run by 3-4 people working flat out with barely any money compared to SI Games.

Sureshot

06-07-2010, 04:17 PM

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 04:36 PM

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 04:43 PM

Cymro

06-07-2010, 04:53 PM

Bless you heart for looking, don't be downbeat on my rant, hopefully there will be plenty of sales for you. Ive made my point and I think you guys understand. But alas if you gave me the game for free I would still not play it without the WISDENLIKE STATS!!!

Here is praying for next year!! (Again!)

Oh if you do use the advice, of which I, sure the game would be more popular, with a greater longievity (spelling!) please dontdo it half heartedly, dont come back with top partnerships for each format!!!, the funny thing is, im no computer whizz or coder, but surely a recording of the stats and the like is simple?, even like a spreadsheet. I mean if you even allowed some form of notepad in the game, I could type in my stats!!!

For me the game has come on leaps and bounds this year. People moaned about a better transfer system ... thats there. People moaned about the T20 engine last season ... thats been improved. People wanted Aussie State cricket in ... thats there. I have been impressed with the game and if they continue to progress the game like they did this year to next year's version then we will have a serious game on our hands.

I do like to see player pictures, kits etc in the game but at the end of the day the game has changed from 12 years ago. Money is wanted by everything and with a small budget you can't have everything. Player images would cost an absolute fortune but I do think place holders could be placed in and then the community much like FM could go to work, creating resources. If people want Wisden involved im sure again a fee would be involved and you must remember that Childish Things is a small company with limited resource, and in the modern day very little is given for free!

To say the game is terrible is nothing short of ridiculous and to say nothing has happened or changed is even more ridiculous. The game has come on and I am hoping more changes and upgrades carry on.

Just remember if you want to help the game then purchase it. Why? Its the only way they are going to get the money to make the game better. If you want the game to develop then the consumer has to purchase it so that more money is made / made available so that they can do the upgrades people want.

Scritty

06-07-2010, 05:02 PM

Indeed.

We have moved the game forward this year, big steps, working flat out on the new features. We cannot accommodate for every persons wishes, unfortunately. We'd love to, but we have to be practical and sensible in our development as a small developer.

OOTP looks pretty good, I can see why you like it. We will strive to improve, the general consensus is that we have with 2010 and we'll look to go further in 2011.

Agreed, the game is improved, but for myself (and apparently Wiki) stats are the thing.

His comment about reading Playfair or Wisden on the toilet rings so true.

20 years ago, as a student, we had the 1985 copy of Playfair (previewing an Ashes tour, and looking back on a five nil "blackwashing" by the West Indies - their words not mine)

This was 1989, 4 years after the events. But it became a standing joke in my halls of residence

"Where's the Playfair?"
" XXXX has got it - he taken it to the loo"

One of my mate's mothers was about one day when this sort of thing happened and thought we were sharing an "adult" magazine around (ahem)

"Nope" we said "It's a 300 page mini book full of cricket stats from 5 years ago".

She asked the obvious question "Why?"
I think the answer rang along the lines of "Don't know - it's just fascinating..."

People would suddenly shout down the corridor

"Did you know Paul Downton scored 3 fifties against the West Indies?"

Or
"I've found Graeme Hick's first FC game - batting number 7"

or even

"Courtney Walsh toured with the Windies, and didn't play a game - that's how good they were"

There were 12 in my corridor in halls or residence that year. I can promise you eleven of them took and read that book over and over again. A couple had never played cricket at any level at all.

This went on for months and months.

Needless to say the book was thrown away at the end - it had spent a little too much time in toilet cubicles for anyone to want to have it.

Amazingly, in Feb (or whenever) when the 1990 Playfair came out (the current one at that time) almost everyone in the corridor bought it. For all but two (if my memory serves) it was the first time they had ever bought it. A couple even invested in Wisden!

Stats actually introduced young men to the game when watching or playing an actual game failed!

I can't say why this was - but it happened.

Stats are so basic and fundamental to cricket that to still have no long term record of seasons and player in a game now into its eleventh iteration is pretty astounding.

I know many people who hardly even play OOTP, FM in the way the developers intended. They set up a game - tweaking all the starting conditions for hours - then "autoplay" or "sim" tens (or in OOTP's case hundreds) of seasons in a few minutes then spend entire evenings pouring over the stats that are produced.

Look, I'm not saying the game should be all about the stats, but for goodness sake it produces some very good and realistic results - please let's have them organized and archived in future versions. Pretty please :)

rishi

06-07-2010, 05:06 PM

d game's development is atleast moving in the right direction. i m pleased they added aus domestic cricket n mayb in future other nations' domestic competitions too.

I too wuld luv to hav more stats, more decision making opporutunities as captain/selector/board president.

just hoping d future versions dont skip any of d gud features to accommodate for new ones.

i back d suggestion to include some blank spaces for players photos to be included. it just makes d game more personal, if u get to see d players whilst playing.. which was a vry exciting aspect of earlier versions of ICC n now lost :(

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 05:07 PM

For me the game has come on leaps and bounds this year. People moaned about a better transfer system ... thats there. People moaned about the T20 engine last season ... thats been improved. People wanted Aussie State cricket in ... thats there. I have been impressed with the game and if they continue to progress the game like they did this year to next year's version then we will have a serious game on our hands.

I do like to see player pictures, kits etc in the game but at the end of the day the game has changed from 12 years ago. Money is wanted by everything and with a small budget you can't have everything. Player images would cost an absolute fortune but I do think place holders could be placed in and then the community much like FM could go to work, creating resources. If people want Wisden involved im sure again a fee would be involved and you must remember that Childish Things is a small company with limited resource, and in the modern day very little is given for free!

To say the game is terrible is nothing short of ridiculous and to say nothing has happened or changed is even more ridiculous. The game has come on and I am hoping more changes and upgrades carry on.

Just remember if you want to help the game then purchase it. Why? Its the only way they are going to get the money to make the game better. If you want the game to develop then the consumer has to purchase it so that more money is made / made available so that they can do the upgrades people want.

I agree with some of what you are saying, but not all, it is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination and Im sorry if that is what my posts are interpreted for.

But if you have played the version for as long as I have you will know what I mean, I play it for three games and its no different to 1998, but with more 6's!. Im one of those people who would be happy to see no graphics or minimal graphics. However I know Im in the minority as look at Brian Lara cricket!!!, I am a geek who wants statistical accuracy, you will find that most hardcore cricket fans are that too. Ill give the developers £100 right now and type stuff for them but what gurantees do I have that they will import my ideas. Been asking for a long time now.

I mean not even the fonts have changed, I mean can anyone honesty say that they are the nicest on the eye fonts!, and to not be able to click on the top of a colunm to get the list ordered is bordering on criminal!!!

Scritty

06-07-2010, 05:11 PM

I give you OOTP!!!!!, and im English!!!!!

Yup - OOTP was a two man show (Mark and Marc) until quite recently. It is quite a bit bigger now. I have every version since OOTP3 and play that and MLB 2010 the show on PS3 more than any cricket game.

I prefer cricket to baseball by quite some way - but no cricket game big or small - offers the depth of OOTP.

No cricketing game offers the depth of OOTP 3 never mind the current version OOTP 11 - it's sad to say that we are not even close, and OOTP 3 was written and produced by a team of two.

(Which incidently is Metacritics second highest rated PC game of ALL TIME behind Half Life 2)

But this is about ICC 10. A decent game, very accurate game engine - producing good realistic results - I just wish than when it's all done and dusted there was a permanent record of what my teams and players have done in a lot of detail.

Scritty

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 05:22 PM

[QUOTE=Scritty;11423]Agreed, the game is improved, but for myself (and apparently Wiki) stats are the thing.

His comment about reading Playfair or Wisden on the toilet rings so true.

20 years ago, as a student, we had the 1985 copy of Playfair (previewing an Ashes tour, and looking back on a five nil "blackwashing" by the West Indies - their words not mine)

This was 1989, 4 years after the events. But it became a standing joke in my halls of residence

"Where's the Playfair?"
" XXXX has got it - he taken it to the loo"

One of my mate's mothers was about one day when this sort of thing happened and thought we were sharing an "adult" magazine around (ahem)

"Nope" we said "It's a 300 page mini book full of cricket stats from 5 years ago".

Hear Hear , Hear Hear, Hear Hear.

This is exactly the sort of thing Im talking about!

You are totally on my wave length Scritty, so keep it up.

I play OOTP and play each game out, the only downer is it takes an eternity to finish a season and therefore the historical stats take ages to produce.

Funny thing is, there are probably alot more outcomes in a cricket match than a baseball match, yet I play all the games in OOTP but not Cricket Capt!, why is that, I think its because everytime I hit a homerun or single or strikeout I want to flick to the history page to see how far he is off the records. Sad I know!!!

That is what I want in Cricket Captain, when my 2 openers go past 350, meaning that they will be minimum 20th on the all time leaderboard for CC 1st Wkt stands, and any run from there on in gets them closer to the next partnership that may be 10 seasons old!

As for photos, I dont care, I love what OOTP did with Face Gen. As for Wisden, you don't need to call them or pay them as Im sure you will find they don't hold a patent on MATHS! and FIGURES!

Scritty

06-07-2010, 05:44 PM

If you have played the version for as long as I have you will know what I mean, I play it for three games and its no different to 1998, but with more 6's!.

Ok, let's be fair about this and sum up the changes;

The interface has changed and 3d GFX added
There are more competitions
You can buy players in differnet ways and contract them differently
Tweaked training
Better team captain in your absence
T20 added

All good stuff, this all helps.

However, once on the pitch - playing the game... it seems exactly the same as ICC in 1998. I use the same tactics to win now as I did then.

The same bowling controls, set the same way, the same batting aggression, the same fields set in the same manner and saved in the same folder, the same increase in aggression when set, the same number of overs for a spinner, rested as long all accessed by pressing buttons with the same words on them put in the same place in an interface that is now a little different

I still have no control or knowledge of a keepers keeping skill or a fielders ability.
My 36 year old fast bowler still seems to bowl as fast as he did at age 24, my spinner has not developed any new balls that I could notice etc etc

In short ..well I don't know about you...but I do absolutely everything the same in both action and result as I did 12 years ago. (again with the caveat ONCE I'M ON THE PITCH)

I appreciate the graphics (not my cup of tea as I'd rather imagine real players than look at lego men) and I also appreciate the other tweaks

but in terms of actual on the pitch gameplay and the mechanics you use - it's pretty darn identical to the original ICC

Left armers bowling around the wicket when the game says over the wicket
No specific aggression levels against a bowler - just an end
No fielding skills
No Keeping skills

I promise you, all these issues were on the Empire Interactive forums 12 years ago, they have been on every forum for every game since - all eleven of them!

Since then the loss of user generated BMP's you used to be able to add has been a major backwards step for me (and others according to this thread)

These omissions and errors are not "wierd" or "obtuse" - I don't think I'm being uptight about it (or as they say these days a@@l) - they are pretty basic cricketing functions, every new version that comes out - the errors or omissions are still there like the proverbial elephant in the room - for twelve long years. Within the first month of release the forums are full of..

"Why does my left armer bowl around when the interface says he's bowling over?" and

"Why does the aggression meter not change when their star bowler comes on at the opposite end?"

For all my patience with the game - I've got to say that these niggles - and more importantly the fact that they have been raised and ignored (by many - rarely myself) year after year really does start to irk me.

Yes new competitions have been added (the chance to play exactly the same game, but with a different shaped silver trophy at the end).

But where are the actual improvement to the GAMEPLAY?
Cross my heart - on the pitch - I see none
Off the pitch there are plenty
On the pitch - none.

Im one of those people who would be happy to see no graphics or minimal graphics.

Current graphics are fine, but I rarely use them except for setting a field (the aspect needs checking) - the field editor is round, whereas the pitch perspective is oval with long square boundaries and shorter straight ones, i need to check that fielders end up where I think they will
So I check they are where I think I put them then keep the fingert on the space key (I don't autoplay, but I do hover on the space key)

I am a geek who wants statistical accuracy, you will find that most hardcore cricket fans are that too.

Yup, me to - I think the VAST majority of cricket fans over age 30 probably are as well. I don't know of course - but If I was a betting man I'd put a tenner on it. Also - we older players have more money. I'd happily play a lot more for a game that delivers (OOTP just cost me almost thirty five quid - and the last game I bought from Matrix Games (Panther's excellent Battles of the Bulge cost almost seventy pounds)

Ill give the developers £100 right now

For a game with in depth stats? - Yup I would too (well next week -I need to get paid first - and try and get my underfuelled Panthers through Belgium)

Peace

Scritty

Cymro

06-07-2010, 05:45 PM

I agree with some of what you are saying, but not all, it is not a bad game by any stretch of the imagination and Im sorry if that is what my posts are interpreted for.

But if you have played the version for as long as I have you will know what I mean, I play it for three games and its no different to 1998, but with more 6's!. Im one of those people who would be happy to see no graphics or minimal graphics. However I know Im in the minority as look at Brian Lara cricket!!!, I am a geek who wants statistical accuracy, you will find that most hardcore cricket fans are that too. Ill give the developers £100 right now and type stuff for them but what gurantees do I have that they will import my ideas. Been asking for a long time now.

I mean not even the fonts have changed, I mean can anyone honesty say that they are the nicest on the eye fonts!, and to not be able to click on the top of a colunm to get the list ordered is bordering on criminal!!!

No thats fair enough.

Been playing since 1998. I think the main problem comes from the crumble of Empire Interactive who to me seemed to have some cash and I think people must realise that Childish Things is nothing compared to that of Empire Interactive.

I do think more stats are needed but on the whole I really enjoy this game. Especially as I can learn how the Aus State System works.

What I don't want to see is a game like Michael Vaughan Cricket Management game. I despised it. ICC is for me the best game. It needs improving but if they continue the improvement has much as they have done this season then next year's version will / should be one hell of a version of ICC.

wilkiburger

06-07-2010, 05:55 PM

Very interesting stuff! I thinkk alot can be learnt from a guy like Markus the developer of OOTP, having said that, America is a big place and they love their baseball.

I must say that the ECB are not helping matters by changing the competitions every year!, it must be a nightmare in itself to program!

What I also find hard to understand is the lack of competition for a cricket game, is cricket at deaths door?

It shouldnt be with twenty20!, the kids love it!, although Im sure Scritti is going to curl his toes!!!

Now Ive got to have a look at this Panthers game!!, got a feeling Scritti likes the games I like!!

Scritty

06-07-2010, 06:25 PM

Now Ive got to have a look at this Panthers game!!, got a feeling Scritti likes the games I like!!

http://www.matrixgames.com/products/377/details/CommandOps:BattlesfromtheBulge

Try Highway to the Reich first (it's the Market Garden operation) It's a lot cheaper. Conquest of the Aegean (the game before BotB) was actually used by NZ military.

It's pausible real time. The command structure is near perfect. You control to the level you feel you need to - your subordinates do the rest.

It makes the AI in Relic games look really rather sad. digging in, using cover, bridge using/blowing/taking/holding.. safe advance / fact advance, probes, re-supply, attrition control..you name it - your subordinates control it as accurately as their individual statistics suggest they should.

I mean you can just take your force commander and tell him to do the lot while you watch (i've tried it - it won't work, but it's not as stupid an idea as it sounds)

Subtle use of resources, feints, flanking and constant supply checks are the key.

Oh and artillery - lots of lovely artillery the real "gods of war" (according to Stalin anyway)

I must say that the ECB are not helping matters by changing the competitions every year!, it must be a nightmare in itself to program!

What I also find hard to understand is the lack of competition for a cricket game, is cricket at deaths door?

It shouldnt be with twenty20!, the kids love it!, although Im sure Scritti is going to curl his toes!!!

Agreed - this years English domestic calendar is awful. Though I'm off to see Worcs/Warks on Friday before I retire to a Worcester sity centre pub for the footy.

Cricket has a TON of money. But if you've ever seen the official licenced IPL cricket game - you'd think it was run on the money made from a car boot sale on a rainy Sunday when there's an anthrax scare in the village. It really is very very poor.

Last time I looked they were going to "add fielding" The mind boggles!?

And yes this is the OFFICIAL IPL game licenced through none other than L Modi himself (back when he was still chairman)

We will get the game we deserve soon. ICC2010 is a fair enough game, but overall I'm more dissapointed than anything :(

Scritty

afridi118

06-07-2010, 08:06 PM

the_trademarc

06-07-2010, 10:36 PM

Well.

Interesting overnight discussion.

I think the point needs to be raised that at the end of the day, we can't expect the world from anything.
Yes more Stats would be better. A Hall Of Fame section would be superb.

But, imagine if they decided to put all new Stat's centre, Aus Domestic, revamped Transfer system, better T20, better balance in gameplay all in the one year?
We wouldn't have the game yet, the price would have to be closer to 25-30 pounds, which then becomes almost too much for Sim, and the same discussion will be had for ICC2011.

We need to understand that when there is restrictions on budget and time, priorities need to be made. Gun to Head, I would say, get the Aussie Domestic Comp done over the Stats Centre.

For 2011, I don't see any further way of improving other than:
Hall Of Fame Centre
More Numbers
Better Fielding and Keeping Techniques
Potentially more accurate player records.

So yes, always room for improvement.
But for 16 pounds, and half a dozen staff, the game is worth the 12 month wait, worth the price, and definitely worth sticking by them and trusting them to come through.

I am positive that all of the feedback will be taken on board, and the same process will be followed. Which will mean priorities again.

Chewie

06-07-2010, 10:45 PM

Scritty

06-07-2010, 11:25 PM

Perhaps my concern is that the match engine is not capable of storing the stats - at least not easily - without a major re-write.

The reason I say this is that things that seem mathematically simple from "outside" the game - don't get implemented inside the game.

Career strike rate. Surely that's just total number of runs divided by total number of balls faced?

It can do it for a couple of seasons in review, then stops. You just get the " - " hyphens instead of the rate.

Wickets "clock back" to zero at around 1100 (not 1024 as I previously thought).

I have several spinners in ICC 2009 who have clocked the game and suddenly it looks like a wicket cost them seventeen thousand runs.

Exporting the stats into a seperate file at the end of each season - then doing the crunching in this file rather than the main save game file might work.

Players have unique ID's in the game - but are there enough?

Were the basic parameters of the engine set high enough from it's inception?
If not -can they be reworked easily, or are the "hard coded" into the engine making it a total rework job that is never likely to happen?

Without massively improved stats for 2011 the game finishes in 2010 for me. Never said that before and as you know I own every iteration (ICC2002 several times) but enough is enough.

I'm not a massive fan of CC - but at least the stats are there, and there is a promise to rework the engine (setting up and choosing "bowling plans" is a right royal pain in the 'arris in CC, interrupting the flow of the game, and requiring a trip through several menus yeuch)

But if another game like CC is committed to giving the whole package, and just as importantly ADDING TO THE IN MATCH GAMEPLAY (in terms of decision making and strategies) then that's where I will go in future.

Yes I want to support cricket games on the PC - but I think after 12 years and over two hundred pounds - I have supported this one enough. Time to stop putting my money where my mouth is.

I have ICC3, 2008 2009 and 2010. the first two of those I probably played for less than 5 hours a piece, 2009 got a couple of good weeks play, and 2010 is already off my laptop (it's still on my desktop) I doubt I will play it again - I can't see what it offers that ICC2002 doesn't in terms of matchday gameplay. Really I can't.

I look forward to seeing where this year goes.

But if I was honest, all I expect next year to offer is a couple of new competitions

Which you play out on the pitch in exactly the same manner as all the previous ones

An up to date database and a couple of buttons that show something or other - ball speed maybe I don't know.

I will pop back now and again over the next few months, but ICC 2010 is off my hard drive. ICC2002 is back on again - I did my bit and bought it - I have no hard feelings - but with no new matchday gameplay and no stats - i suspect this is the last one I shall buy.

Scritty

Phylos Fett

06-08-2010, 12:46 AM

I have to say that fielding and keeping are something that I'd like more control over in the game - training specific to fielders would be nice, being able to make specialists of them in much the same way that batsmen and bowlers have specialist areas. I don't know whether I'd like to micromanage to the level where I placed every single fielder, every time I changed the field, but having specialist slips fielders, boundary sweepers, guys that are experts in cutting out the quick singles, or just a dead eye for hitting the stumps in the circle would be nice options. Likewise having a keeper that was good with spinners, great at getting to the stumps, covering more area, and so forth, give deeper, and richer options.

cricfan1

06-08-2010, 07:04 AM

Scritty

06-08-2010, 08:09 AM

Look at the specially on gameplay and some other features are added , this is much improvement as online play also improved.
I know stats are important ,wish include this in next version
wish for good sale for 2010 so that we can get more quality in next version

Ok, outside the match day there is added gameplay.
Can you name me ONE addition or improvement to the mechanics of playing an actual cricket match?
I can think of zero - zilch not "a" one.
Maybe I'm missing something, but the process of actually playing a game now seems exactly the same as it was with ICC in 2008.
Yes all the periphery has been improved, competitions, training etc. But the actual MATCH from memory (because ICC1 and ICC2 won't install any more) seems identical - I mean absolutley identical.
The game is cricket, not "cricket training manager" or "cricket player contract manager"
Nice though these improvements are, where is the change and added depth to the actual game "on the pitch"?

And stats. I was just looking at a massive thread dated 2009 where stats and records were discussed, with every single contributor (and the thread went on for many pages) saying they wanted more stats and records.

It's about the only topic that everyone agreed with!

I might go back to reading old Wisdens while I'm on the loo :)

Even when the concensus is entirely for something as obviously "cricket" as stats, (and in good time for inclusion in ICC 2010, the thread ia almost a year old) it doesn't get a look in.

Cricket without stats.

I just can't get my head around it. It's like bacon sarnies without sauce or an Indian meal without poppadums.

Battles of the Bulge and Warcraft are calling anyway (WoW servers down today for Cataclysm improvements to be made...)

Scritty

Imager36

06-08-2010, 11:02 AM

Small point - I would say all keepers and fielders aren't equal adeptness at catching/fielding. For example in the 2009 game if you kept with Klokker compared to say Read, Klokker would have far less catches or stumpings. Likewise, some fielders have way more catches than others, and these fielders are the one used as substitute keepers when your normal one gets injured. But there are no really visible statistics to show which fielders/keepers are better and in which position.

I can't be bothered commenting on the rest of this discussion though :p

Yeah, I'm with you on that. I think you can see how the game rates each player as a fielder by the order that they are put up on the fielding set diagrams, cause it alway puts keepers who aren't keeping at the top, and therefore in the slips.

Maybe a simple favourite fielding position under each player's batting preferences? Maybe even based on their 'fielding rating' if there is such a thing.

And I'm not gonna write an essay about the rest of it, either. I can see where everybody's coming from, to be honest!

Sureshot

06-08-2010, 11:54 AM

Scritty

06-08-2010, 12:31 PM

So let's say we are to improve the in-match atmosphere in 2011, Scritty, what would you want to see in-match that you control?

I remember seeing strike rates mentioned earlier. The only reason career strike rates for non-regens weren't recorded is because they've only been accurately recorded in recent times.

I would like to know who my better fielders are. I take the point that some take more catches and you can judge perhaps that they are better at "catching" but that doesn't help with arm stregnth. running speed etc. Are these all the same?

(I realize that changing these can really mess up the delicate algorithms that balance bat and ball)

On screen scoreboard (when playing live) names, runs, bowlers name. I wouldn't want too much (becasue I wouldn't want it to take up too much space.

Or press "S" for match scoreboard to pop up. THis sort of thing might get to actually play while using the 3d engine again.

When playing an over (as opposed to ball by ball) an "interrupt" button to allow you to go back to ball by ball - just in case.

BAtting directions. "Real" ones. i.e the sort of thing a captain says to his guy as he walks down the pavilion steps.

"Rotate the strike"
"Give XX the strike"
"Take time out of the game"
"Bat time"
"Tell XXX to give you the strike"
"See off this bowler" (goes back to specific aggressions by bowler rather than by end)

For bowlers it could be

"Keep him on strike"
"I'm only bowling you 4 overs - so give it everything"..conversely..
"I need you to hold this end, so save yourself for a long spell"

Ball condition is another area that real captains really stress over.
Again I know reverse swing is in the game, but the mechanic is a little obscure and seems to be "put your reverse swing bowler on at 40 overs to see if it's going or not"

There are a lot of things a captain does on the pitch (after all this is "Cricket Captain" not "Cricket Chairman" )

I captain the mighty Flyford Flavell CC

http://flyfordflavell.play-cricket.com/scoreboard/results.asp?seasonID=&fromForm=1&quickSearch=QS3&startDay=8&startMonth=3&startYear=2010&endDay=8&endMonth=6&endYear=2010&type=&team=

as you can see, we have not had a great start to the season.

(I'm Paul Clarke or Paul Rone-Clarke BTW)

On top of the things ICC sims I also;

Talk to bowlers every over or two. (Happy with field? How's it coming out today?
You're pushing a few at leg stump, shall I put second slip over to mid wicket?)

Move fielders around (sometimes just because XXX has been on the bouindary on his own for two hours straight and needs to be brought into the game)

Speak to the keeper (I do this more than anything, the keeper see's every ball, and is the best judge of just about every aspect - although you have to know and trust your keeper - we've had some nutters - I think the role of keeper attracts more than it's fair share of loons)

Gee the team up.

Prepare older bowlers for a spell several overs in advance (pacemen over the age of 32 or so like some warning, or they leak runs with ten balls of "warm up" deliveries in the live game)

Give fielding instructions "Bounce back" on hot days (to get the ball ready for reverse - something I attempt myself) or "Keep it off the deck" on days where it might be damp and the spinner wants a dry ball

Stay out or walk in (it's not always walk in) for fielders.

In fact it's none stop, there isn't a ball goes by where I don't have to at least think about something.

When batting it's a little simpler, but the stuff I mentioned at the top is important.

I don't play "declaration" games any more. It's all Sat and Sun 40 overs - 8 a bowler stuff, but I used to have "play for a draw" or "we need the win".

However, these were the most unsuccesful instructions I ever tried in my previous stint as captain in the mid 90's.

In short, there are a ton of things, some simple, some not so. Many are vital (ball condition, field instructions and warm ups for older bowlers are critical - if I mess any of those up - it costs runs, sometimes the game)

Anyway, I'm sure there are many more.

Scritty

Phylos Fett

06-08-2010, 02:13 PM

When playing an over (as opposed to ball by ball) an "interrupt" button to allow you to go back to ball by ball - just in case.

I've been thinking about this for a while now. If a bowler is leaking a single here and there, I don't mind and I like to just play over by over so that the game moves along quickly, but there is nothing worse that a bowler that has been bowling economically getting crunched for 3 or 4 fours (or worse) in an over, and I'm left sitting there helpless to step in.

Maybe have an interrupt command that you can set similar to the highlight options - none, w + boundaries, chances + boundaries, all chances + runs, every ball.

To be honest, a more comprehensive highlight setting would be nice, too.

Yorks

06-08-2010, 04:00 PM

Also the interrupt button could be very useful in One Day Games after a no-ball to change the field when bowling/change the batters aggression to maximum.

(I know changing the field isn't allowed though if it the same batsman on strike so maybe just change the aggression of the bowler for that instance)

Sureshot

06-08-2010, 04:47 PM

Scritty, I appreciate the in-put. I do like the idea of the interrupt button.

For some of those, they already exist within the game.

The bowling bars reflect how much effort the bowler is putting in. 1/2 for long spells, 5/6 for short bursts.

When batting, keep him off strike, you can easily tell batsman to keep the strike.

On-screen scoreboard. We added the over widget, which I like. We'd be cautious of clogging up the screen, but maybe a summary board below the score?

I get what you are trying to convey, which is pretty much the shouting option that SI brought in to FM, isn't it?

Scritty

06-08-2010, 07:44 PM

I get what you are trying to convey, which is pretty much the shouting option that SI brought in to FM, isn't it?

It could be something like that - though I think the actual mechanic is pretty clumsy in both thought and execution in FM

There are things a captain does on the pitch, pretty important stuff that may be hard to sim in a game that needs to flow.

However, the actual mechanics of playing the game with the current feature set could be improved a little.

Left armers default to over the wicket
Batting aggression fixed by bowler not end
An idea of an overseas players national commitments before the contract screen
WK stood up or back to most bowlers
Duckworth Lewis
Rain affecting other sides fixtures (does it yet, actually not checked 2010?)
Injuries recovered from during a game
Substitute fielders
Boundaries out or in
Multi talent cricketers i.e bowl several different styles a la Shewag, Tendulkar, Symonds, White
Accurate aging model (slowing up of quicks, new balls developed by spinners, "nouce" replacing pace etc)
An idea of captains affect on the team (if any)
Fielding stats for speed and arm strength (i'll take your word that catching is already in the game - i've not noticed, sometimes you can be too subtle for your own good. Slips take more than bloke on cover boundary, but as a percentage of chances offered I've not noticed any difference from one player to the next.)
A custom field set that automatically comes up for a specific bowler
Feedback during a game from key players

And of course long lasting records of all your achievements both as a team and by individual players you brought through.

Scritty

Imager36

06-08-2010, 08:27 PM

Yeah, rain does affect other CC matches at least!

Sureshot

06-08-2010, 10:59 PM

Been speaking with Chris about this thread in particular and I'll be summarising it in some documents for future reference, as well as updating it, like I did for 2009 and 2010. I'm sure you can appreciate that we can't promise or commit to anything at this stage, but your suggestions have been noted, appreciated and discussed. We do value the feedback as it helps us know how you want us to go forward, it's also helpful when that feedback is constructive and realistic.

Fielder stats, they do exist btw, for example, Flintoff fields at 1st slip and takes a higher percentage of catches than say, Panesar would in that position. I know it's quite difficult as we don't have them visible, like any of the batting/bowling attributes, but again, it's been noted that apart from the CPM, it's not recorded in anyway to help you decipher it.

Scritty

06-09-2010, 05:05 PM

We do value the feedback as it helps us know how you want us to go forward, it's also helpful when that feedback is constructive and realistic.

Thanks for the reply. I'll get off this hobbyhorse now then...

Any idea about exporting match scorecards or end of season tables?
I think this was something that was in previous versions (or at least one version or other)
I'd quite happily write some VB or C++ to sort these and make a small version of a stats package based on either the season stat tables, (for season or total career) or even better take a match by match view and compile a more in depth season view.

It would be some way off complete, but it would be a way ofg keeping stats for now without writing them all down or transferring them to Excel (which looking at this thread and Wiki's thread quite a few people already do).

A simple CSV file
id,name,how out,catcher(if any),score,balls faced,minutes - for batters and id,name,overs,odd balls,maidens,wickets - for bowlers

This AND the and ability to export the stats tables that are already in the game would be a godsend, and something I'd probably tinker with for...oohh...weeks on end - then give the resulting program/excel file or whatever back to the community.

Not perfect, but if it could be done on Chris's side it would give the game a whole new lease of life - just by allowing the current scores and tables to be exported in a CSV file.

How about it? :)

Scritty

Hataf

06-10-2010, 03:08 PM

- The mugshots things were pretty nice back then.
- Retired players must have their stats on save.

wilkiburger

06-10-2010, 03:59 PM

Scitty you would be a legend if you could come up with this!!, although I have no Idea what it is as not a computer man!!!, maybe you could post a screenshot of what you mean?

Sureshot

06-11-2010, 12:30 PM

Thanks for the reply. I'll get off this hobbyhorse now then...

Any idea about exporting match scorecards or end of season tables?
I think this was something that was in previous versions (or at least one version or other)
I'd quite happily write some VB or C++ to sort these and make a small version of a stats package based on either the season stat tables, (for season or total career) or even better take a match by match view and compile a more in depth season view.

It would be some way off complete, but it would be a way ofg keeping stats for now without writing them all down or transferring them to Excel (which looking at this thread and Wiki's thread quite a few people already do).

A simple CSV file
id,name,how out,catcher(if any),score,balls faced,minutes - for batters and id,name,overs,odd balls,maidens,wickets - for bowlers

This AND the and ability to export the stats tables that are already in the game would be a godsend, and something I'd probably tinker with for...oohh...weeks on end - then give the resulting program/excel file or whatever back to the community.

Not perfect, but if it could be done on Chris's side it would give the game a whole new lease of life - just by allowing the current scores and tables to be exported in a CSV file.

How about it? :)

Scritty

It's hard to discuss it, I don't mean in as such as what it is, but timing, with the game not even on boxed release yet (though it has been submitted for production). Development for 2011 at this moment doesn't go much beyond (put it in a development file) and a bit of discussion, as I did with Chris regarding your want of expanded stats. It's certainly in those files and it's in our thoughts, just with the limitations of sorting out the 2010 version.

I am trying to not be negative here, btw. :) Just a timing issue, not that there is anything wrong with feedback, the earlier the better in many respects, just not so much for future development with giving definitive answers/promises.