Important ideas

[str]

(1)a hall of fame option-

i have some players with world records and domestic . And i want to put them in to the hall of fame before they retire .


(2)twenty20 world cup

there is no twenty20 world cup in current game .


(3) talent sign

aggressive style
strong pace bowling preference
strong off side preference

talent: 5 star (*****)


(4)bowling speed


(5)man of the tournament


(6)man of the series


(7)more international teams


(8)day/night match


(9)your fired or sacking (on/off)


(10)player improvement with training


(11)more youth players


(12)more sixes


no player can hit 12 sixes in current game . I want to break the world record .

[Cyril Washbrook]

Many of those have been suggested in the past already; many of them being good ones, IMHO. Point 3 is a bad idea in terms of realism: you don't get "talent signs" in real life - you have to judge by performances and what you perceive to be a player's potential. As for Point 10, players do improve with training, as they always have in ICC.

[aus5892]

Well let me just say that number 10 is certainly in the game. As for the rest, most are being considered.

[str]

Many of those have been suggested in the past already; many of them being good ones, IMHO. Point 3 is a bad idea in terms of realism: you don't get "talent signs" in real life - you have to judge by performances and what you perceive to be a player's potential. As for Point 10, players do improve with training, as they always have in ICC.



In real life I can recognize a player's talent . If you play "FIFA manager 08" you will see talent signs there . Just check the box Talent on/0ff .


Jack Kallis is a 5 star talent . We know it because he is a real player . We don't know much about youth players . All players are not Jack Kallis in cricket or Christiano Ronaldo in football .



Yes I know there is training .

Once I trained a bad player in ICC . I wanted to make him a star . I trained him for 6 years . But he failed . That's why I want more improvement with training .



Thanks for the reply .

[Cyril Washbrook]

You recognise a player's talent by how he performs. We know Jacques Kallis is a great talent because he has proved it. We didn't find out because some higher being reached out from the heavens and stuck a big "5 star talent" sign above his head. Naturally, in real life you can also watch a player in the nets and you might see that he has a good technique. But it's hardly impossible to identify talent. I mean, if you notice a 22 year old averaging 50 with the bat in second-team action, then it's probably a good idea to treat him as a player with great potential.

As for the training thing: I cannot see what problem you are trying to identify with the training module. Most players don't make it in the world of cricket. Some do, and you will be rewarded if you persist with them. If every player became a top class player just because you trained them, then ICC would be a worthless game to play.

[str]

Youth players with 50 average in 2nd team are not good always . I have seen a lot of players in ICC . And what about the bowlers ?

I love this game . And try to play everyday . I can still remember the first time i won the World Cup in ICC 2001 many years ago .

I think talent sign should be there with on/off option . Just like sacking . And this can make the game better .

I can't train the youth team players in ICC . That's why I want talent sign .

I like to play with weak teams .

The youngest player of ICC 2008 is Bangladesh's "Ariful Haque" . He is just 14 years old All-rounder . He has a great average .

Can you make him a better player with training ?

When I started the game his average was 46 . I trained him for 6 years . Some how he scored few centuries . But His average is just 17 now .

Another player is Bangladesh's Nadimuddin . He is a 17 year old wicket keeper . His average is 83 . I tried to make him like Adam Gilchrist with training .


So most of the time average is not a sign to recognize a talent .


I can give many examples . Somerset is my team . 18th season now . I had many bad signings .

[Cyril Washbrook]

Of course average isn't always an indication of talent. But to paraphrase what you're saying, talent "is not a sign to recognise" a great cricketer. Ian Craig was hailed as the next Bradman having piled on the runs at a young age, but was a miserable failure at the highest level. Stories like that are a dime a dozen.

Moreover, can I just restate an irrefutable fact: in ICC, players improve with training. There is no doubt about this. It is incontrovertible. It is built into the game engine. It always has been.

If all the players you've got are doing so badly, then the only explanation I can think of is that you've put them all onto Batting Practice and Bowling Practice, instead of Batting Technique and Bowling Technique.

[aus5892]

The thing about training is that you need to give them technique training but you also need to give them first team experience for them to develop properly.

[str]

"Ariful Haque" is the youngest player of ICC 2008 . He is the captain and playing every match for 6 season . I made him captain because he is just 14 years old . I am teaching him batting technique>General Technique for 6 long season . Yes he has improved . But not so much . 17 is not a good average for a number 4 batsman .


Once I had 50,000 budget in youth team . Two bad youth player came .


Next season I had just 10,000 in youth team budget . One very good player came from youth team . His average is 65 now .

[Isura]

Many of those have been suggested in the past already; many of them being good ones, IMHO. Point 3 is a bad idea in terms of realism: you don't get "talent signs" in real life - you have to judge by performances and what you perceive to be a player's potential. As for Point 10, players do improve with training, as they always have in ICC.

This isn't exactly true. Teams scout players all the time, and give them (even just internal) potential ratings. They may not reach that potential, but that's part of the challenge/randomness of the game.

[str]

Yes we need talent sign with 5 Stars in ICC .

Look at FIFA Manager 08's Steven Gerrard profile . Look at the 5 star talent sign .


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/3483/gerrardr.jpg (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gerrardr.jpg)

[Scritty]

I do see your point.

Can I play devils advocate on this one ?

As someone who plays text sports sims of every description. (I have over 100, though most are iterations/yearly updates) All ICC, all CM and FM, all OOTP, all Baseball Mogul, (well back to 2003), hockey, golf, boxing etc etc. I have them all.

ICC is one of the very few that does not have the star system for talent. Your point with Gerrard above is well made. I understand that many are used to it.

However...

In most games (at least the well structured ones) talent levels are "tiered"

That is to say that at a lower tier, a record of good results, and a high level of talent at that level is a good indicator of performance expectations at a higher level.

That is not to say that expectation is always met. Far from it. In some cases the opposite is true. 2nd team performance is a good indication of future development, but is absolutely NOT a guarantee.

I will give a couple of examples from England in the last few years, some one way, some the other.

Rampraksh / Hick easily and FAR AWAY the biggest and most succesful run scorers in 1st class cricket in England in the last 20 years. Hick with nearly 140 hundreds. I've just watched Ramprakash score his second big televised List A score inside 4 days on Sky this weekend. He has averaged over 100 in 2 of the last 3 seasons

Now if stats and 1st class talent was a rock solid assurance of test ability, then these two would be Lara and Tendulkar.

They are not, they are not even close (and between them they played the best part of 100 tests, so they had a fair crack at it)


Vaughan, Collingwood.

Both just about the right side of OK in normal 1st class, actually have (or the last time I checked had) substantially BETTER test records than first class.

How can this be right ? Easier to score against McGrath, Warne, Bond, Muralideran (sic? dunno it's different every time I read the back of his shirt), Khan, Ahktar....really ?

So a player with a second team average of 50+ may well turn into a good FC player, maybe even a good test player. But maybe he will be terrible.

Nicky Peng, David Sales, Mark Lathwell, Ashley Metcalfe.

All batting gods for some time in their youth. Talent ? Yeah 5 stars.

Now ? Nicky who ?

It's not like they got old and failed. They were fantastic young players, scoring FC hundreds for fun in their early days. They got top international coaches to train them, and for various reasons failed. They actually got worse. while still relatively young they blew it.

Not just batters. Ashley Cowan, Chris Silverwood, Martin McCague, Min Patel, the list is pretty long (coaches must get really frustrated).

Another very good reason for not having a star system is that a fully transparent system of ratings takes the skill right out of the game.
Why bother scouting ? Why bother taking chances with young unknowns ? Just buy the highest stars you can afford, job done....very dull.

Half the fun is unearthing talent and getting the bragging rights on a fantastic player that no-one else spotted (even if it's just on these forums).

I would argue that footy is different in this respect, a football pitch has many very different roles in it. You need at least 11 quite different skill sets. even swapping over your two central midfielders can be devastating because of the many variations of the skill sets required. (Ask Chelsea fans and they will bore you about this one) So although you get star systems with footy, knowing what to do with that 4 star player you bought is still a challenge. Where to best play him etc.

Cricket of course has different skill sets - but no-where near as many.

You can bat in any position and still be expected to be able to play spin/swing or seam. Still have to face a new ball now and again (even if it is the second new ball). Bowling and keeping are the real defining skills, but then you run out of variations long before you run out of fingers and toes to count them on (though I miss Shane Warne's ashes promise of a new "wonder" delivery every 4 years).

For there to be skill and reward in a cricket game I'm not sure stars is the thing, it just takes the skill out of it.

Finally, and please don't think I'm being rude. But the fact that (at the moment at least) many players who thrive in Bangladeshi domestic leagues fail in international competition is of no real suprise to me. The same should currently be true of Zimbabwe as well.

Though I'm sure both countries will improve in the next decade (well Bangladesh anyway, it's going to take something more than a desire to play cricket to fix Zimbabwe's internal problems).

So I would prefer no stars, though I would not be averse to having them in the "easy" skill game, as long as that was clear when playing on line who had used this cheat and who hadn't.

Regards


Paul Clarke

PS Steve's stats above show why that is one sports sim I won't play. I can't see anything below 93%, are they saying that he's the best in the world at everything ?

Looks like a top defender,wing back, central midfielder, winger, striker.

While he is very good, I don't think he's THAT good.

[Imager36]

PS Steve's stats above show why that is one sports sim I won't play. I can't see anything below 93%, are they saying that he's the best in the world at everything ?

Looks like a top defender,wing back, central midfielder, winger, striker.

While he is very good, I don't think he's THAT good.

I would even dare to suggest that the ranking system is better in FIFA than FIFA Manager from that picture.

Also, I'll just say that I am definetley square against the talent stars ideas.

[aus5892]

Like Chris, I agree that there is a lot of fun and challenge in having to experiment ingame with teams. Even ingame, some players are great at FC level but terrible at test level. Or they might be a great, even economical bowler in Test level, but in an ODI they leak runs.

I think the way it is is fantastic, and it will certainly be that way in 2009.